I wanted to thank you fellas who offered suggestions on this travertine job. I finished the job a couple days ago and wanted to pass on what I learned. Overall the customer and I were pleased.
1. I used spectralock epoxy grout buff. I grouted after 120 resin. I was not pleased for several reasons.
1. Holes opened up after later grits, and grout popped out in many places. I am not sure if it was due to a low quality stone or if I should have grouted after 200 or 400. I suppose I would have risked getting all the residue off if I did this. man I really wore down my 200 grit after grouting even though I got what looked like most all of the residue off.
2. The grout did not take on a shine, even after 1500 resin and polishing with mb-12. it looked like sanded grout to me. This surprised me, but seeing as how a lot of the grout didn't stick it didn't really matter.
3. That stuff sets up quick.
2. The overall shine I expected was not there. I was really going for a glassed out floor. Maybe it was the stone. not sure. Diaglo helped it some after mb-12. it could have been the lighting also.
3. I may be crazy but has anyone ever used a propane buffer to polish?? I only tried this as it was a perfectly flat floor, and one of my guys suggested it as we had one in the trailer. It worked AMAZING. You have to be careful with it, but it worked about 3-4 times as fast.
4. If you are grinding around ceramic inserts, make sure you are getting paid for it. Hand grinding is no fun.
Jason
From: John Freitag [mailto:jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com]
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 8:01 PM
To: 'Restoration and Maintenance'; jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Travertine Grind
Jason,
Sorry for the delay in responding to you.
Lippage remover on the travertine floor with ceramic tile inserts . This one will be a fun job I hope you bid thisone high , let’s review the lippage removal and the process
1. Removing lippage on a soft stone such as travertine I would use a 50 grit metal diamond, any more aggressive you will pull more fills and take longer to complete the project.
2. Some feel that adding weight is the answer to remove lippage, while some weight is ok I would not recommend no more than 25 TO 35 # plus the weight of you machine. Keep in mind that diamonds were created to cut the stone. If too much weigh is added you are forcing the diamond into the stone and the next diamond grit will take longer to remove, plus the more weight that is uses the more fills you will drag out of the stone and your diamond cost per Sq ft. will increase due to the fact that you will wear out your diamond much faster.
3. If the lippage is sever you may want to take grout and ramp the edges up so you machine will go over those edge easier during those initial passes and will not be as rought on your equipment and the tech running the machine. The grout will grind down with your lippage and when you are done the floors is flat and the grout is perfectly flat with the stone. If the lippage is sever the diamond slamming into the lipped edge could fracture the stone, especially if the stone is not set properly or if the stone is hollow you could have problems.
4. Once you have a flat floor with your 50 grit metal then go to a 100 grit metal to remove the 50 grit scratch patterns.
5. Next drop down to a 50 grit resin and then work your way up to 220.
6. Then float the floor with your filler, I prefer the product called Traver-fil that is made specifically for filling travertine, slightly overfill the floor leaving a light film on the floor.
7. Allow the fill to dry overnight if possible longer.
8. Go back and hone up to 400, this remove the film left on the stone, then polish with 5X powder.
9. Unfortunately with the ceramic tile inlay you will need to hand grind around the inlay to achieve the completed project.
Caution using the traver-fill the pot life is short, do not mix up large amounts, mix up smaller amounts of fill. The traver-fill is very similar to what is used in the quarries to fill this stone.
The second question you had could you eliminate the metal grind and use 50 or 100 resins, yes you could but the grind time would be much longer and you would have to start with 50 resin. I do not recommend this process.
From: jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com [mailto:jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 2:06 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Travertine Grind
Hi John,
Thanks for your comments.
I do have some heavy lippage to remove on this floor. Even though the stone is softer, do you think I may be able to eliminate metal grinding and/or 50/100 resin?
I am interested in a good filler. Could I get product info? Or debbie could you provide?
JasonSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "John Freitag"
Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 13:06:19 -0400
To: Restoration and Maintenance<sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Travertine GrindJason,
I would never try to grind or hone over a ceramic tile, you are asking for problems. Try the following
1. Purchase some clear packing tape, tape over the inserts, over tape the insert, then go back with a single edge razor blade and cut off the tape even with the grout line, you should be able to hone over the ceramic tiles. The tape is so thin the diamond will glide over the tape. Seeing it a soft travertine I would suggest starting with a 220 grit and test a small area, if ir removes the damage continue , if it does not go to the 120 but in most cases you can remove a loot of damage with a 220 diamond, providing it’s a good 220 grit, meaning all 220 grit diamonds are not created equal.
Note : if the damage is very light try a sample at a 400, I recommend always test a small area if your not sure of the damage in the stone. To do a test take little time but on 1200 plus sq.ft if you can eliminate 1 hone you have saved a lot of time.
There are products out in the market call traver-fill specifically designed for filling travertine. I think StoneCare Central has one , if not I can put StoneCare Central in touch with the direct manufacturer. This a great product, very little shrinkage and once you know how to use it it’s great. It matches the quarry fills almost perfect.
2. Dry grinding marble, I have seem this done before, the problem you have is the dust, even with vac attached to your floor machines there is still dust that get on the customer furnishings, and you will have a n unhappy customer.
For as much as diamonds I prefer the triple thick 3” diamonds from StoneCare Central I have used these diamond for over 8 maybe 10 years as my diamond of choice, I operated a restoration company that had sales over 1 million dollars per year and that ‘s the diamond I used.
3. Dry grinding to see the scratch patterns is nice, but I use a teach in The Stone and Tile School how to make sure you achieve a good even and complete grind or honing through a timing process that will guarantee a good hone and will assist you in bidding the time it will take to complete a project regardless of the size.
4. I concrete diamond for marble, there a lot of suppliers trying to design a diamond that will work on ALL materials, I still believe that you need to use the diamond that is designed for the stone you are working on. Marble, Granite, concrete. Some day maybe there will be one diamond for all but for now I’m not convinced of it.
Don’t forget after you complete this job to sell the customer theproper care products for cleaning the floor and for the proper cleaning of any other stone or tile surface that maybe in the house
CARE PRODUCTS MEAN EXTRA SALES AND PROFITS FOR YOU
If I can be of any other assistance please advise, visit or school site at www.thestoneandtileschool.com
John E. Freitag
President/Director
The Stone and Tile School
Office 407-567-7652
Cell 407-615-0134
jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com
From: jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com [mailto:jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:17 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: [sccpartners] Travertine Grind
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: jason francis
Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 08:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: <jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com>
Subject: Travertine GrindSince we are talking about travertine I thought I would get some feedback on my next big project. I am grinding 1250 sq. ft of soft honed travertine and bringing it to a high polish. The homeowner decided to put ceramic tile inserts throughout the floor, of all things to put. 1. Has anyone ground ceramic inserts? My assumption is that if it is through body, than it will be fine. My plan is to try an area and see how it works first. Hopefully it is thick enough tile. Man it would be a lot more work if I have to blend around these inserts with metals then duct tape them off. 2. Do ya'll have a preferred fill? I am planning on using epoxy grout. Is there anything wrong with Laticrete from Home Cheapo? Obviously I want the fill the take a high polish. 3. This question is strange. I have a full set of diamonds I use for concrete called T Bone(Dry). Manufacturer sells them as also for marble and travertine used dry. They say its new technology. Has anyone ever worked resins dry on marble? I am almost afraid to try. I would assume there is no harm in just using them wet. At the same time it would be nice to see the scratch pattern as you work. Thanks in advance for your thoughts, Jason Protocol
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