I have one more theory I thought was worth mentioning. I am assuming the DW and seam is near the sink. If the joint between the sink and granite in not properly caulked, it could leak water to the plywood while rinsing down the sink or if the DW vent overflows a little water, etc.. this could bow plywood and pop the seam. When I install tile counters I always treat the area around the sink and splash with a water proofing material like ultra-set or gold coat. One more potential trouble spot to rule out :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Freitag" <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com>
To: "Restoration and Maintenance" <sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 12:44:33 PM GMT -08:00 Tijuana / Baja California
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Granite Seam RepairGeorgia,
All of the answers below are correct and could be causing the problem of re cracking. Some additional areas to check to see if any of these could be an issue.
1. Check to make sure the counter top has been properly installed, this means the top needs to be shimmed properly where any voids maybe, are the counter tops level? If not there could be voids under the counter that allow the counter top to move.
2. Where the countertop is seamed is there a counter support in that area, if there is not a support directly under the seam or on each side of the seam then there will probably be movement and the countertop will continue to crack out.
3. If there is a basement under the kitchen, many times the builder did not take into consideration that the countertops would be granite and did not allow for the additional weight and the floors is actually flexing in and the seam is the weakest point.
4. I have actually seem countertops that were installed and the countertop was cut back into the drywall and into the studs and normal movement in the house caused the movement in the counter thus cracking the seam.
5. While the steam from the dishwasher maybe and issue, I’m not sure that’s what happening on this counter. I have unfortunately a seam above my dishwasher and it’s been there for 4 years and the seam is as tight as the day they installed it
My guess is you have movement and this is causing the problems
John E. Freitag
President/Director
The Stone and Tile School
Office 407-567-7652
Cell 407-615-0134
jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com
From: rivera.gm@gmail.com [mailto:rivera.gm@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Georgia Rivera
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 3:59 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Granite Seam Repair
Ahhhhhh good thinking!
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:56 PM, <glagana@comcast.net> wrote:
the steam from the DW is most likely affecting the plywood under the granite causing it to swell and push on your seam. It can affect door panels as well. Dont rule out other trades standing on your counter to paint, install light trims etc.. over a already weak area under the DW.
----- Original Message -----
From: anthony@777-7797.com
To: "Restoration and Maintenance" <sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:51:18 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Granite Seam RepairGiorgia
I just finished such a repair last week.
I am not certain which glue to use, I am actually having trouble with all of them, so go with the Doc’s recommendation, but what I can tell you is no matter what glue you use if you don’t fix the supporting issue, no amount of glue will hold it together.
Here’s what you need to do when you fix a seam
Scenario 1
1) When a client calls you and says I have a crack, , many times you have to realize that mother nature decided to crack in that particular area so you have to work with her and not against her. Last week as I inspected the crack along the seam of the sink, I also notice it ran along a joint in the backsplash, nearly invisible but there, and up that cabinets. That meant the home shifted in that area and decided to crack along the weakest areas
2) Our conclusion was that a silicone which has more flexibility was better suited
Scenario 2
3) When I pressed down on the counter I noticed it “flexed” where the crack was. This was due to a poor installation and as the Doc said poor support.
4) So I took a little diamond blade on my Fein tool (grinder) and made a small 3 inch long incision under the exposed edge of the granite top. I inserted a small stainless steel rod and glued it in place. The incision must be deep enough so the metal rod can be fully inserted. Allow the epoxy glue to dry and sanded of the excess. This stopped the flexing, to point. Then I repaired the seam.
Again on these repairs I never give a guarantee.
Antonio
Marble Maestro
From: rivera.gm@gmail.com [mailto:rivera.gm@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Georgia Rivera
Sent: July-20-09 1:15 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Granite Seam Repair
OK...ty
:)
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Dr Fred <fhueston@stoneandtilepros.com> wrote:
it would be the best glue, but the steam will eventually effect that too
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Georgia Rivera <georgia@stonebuff.com> wrote:
Thank you. I didn't think of the steam. If I am correct, epoxy is the best route and it will not be 100% effective if it is a steam issue. This might need to be a routine maintenance thing for him?
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Dr Fred <fhueston@stoneandtilepros.com> wrote:
There can be several reasons. My first guess is that the steam from the dishwasher is causing the problem. The steam will break down the adhesive, especially if it is not expoxy. I would also check the installation to make sure it is properly supported
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Georgia Rivera <georgia@stonebuff.com> wrote:
Hi group. I hope everyone is having a great Monday. I have a question I was hoping you guys can help me to understand.
(Note: I didn't perform the repair, nor did I see the project site but I would like to have a better understanding so I can address my customer or have the info for future reference.)
In the end of April of this year we completed a seam repair project for a customer (my records show that an acrylic filler was used). The customer's original inquiry stated "The epoxy in the seam has cracked." I have never known a customer to mention a crack repair issue like this (they usually just say there is a crack or the crack has opened) and this makes me believe that perhaps he attempted to have it repaired in the past either by his own hand or through another professional.
He called me today to tell me that the crack has opened again. (We have never had a crack re-open on us before) Being that I never saw the surface, I was talking blind to him and making an appointment for us to come take a look for him. However, he did mention in this conversation that it is the seam near the dishwasher. I little light went on in my head thinking that maybe the vibrations of the dishwasher could be causing this issue. But how much vibration can come from a dishwasher to crack the counter? Then again, it is the seam which is the weak point of the counter.
I am going to go take a look myself next Tuesday. I will have Alex with me, too. But I thought I could get your thoughts about what I should look for and any options that could resolve the issue. Should I try to start the dishwasher to see how badly it vibrates? Should I look under the counter to make sure it is properly supported underneath? Are there any suggestions as far as a products go? Am I correct in thinking that an epoxy filler should be used instead of acrylic?
Thanks! Please know that I am not the one usually on project sites but I am trying to learn as if I am a restoration pro so that I can be the ultimate sales guru for my business and sound educated when I talk to my customers. Also, maybe I could help take on some projects on my own eventually (besides tile and grout). Thanks to all of you, I am learning a lot.
Your thoughts?
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Frederick M. Hueston PhD
www.stoneforensics.com
www.stoneandtilepros.com
My New Radio Show www.thestoneandtileshow.com
Become a Stone and Tile Inspector..sign up for our next class in October 2009 (only one class per year is offered) www.thestoneandtileschool.com
888-314-9077
702-314-1017
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--
Frederick M. Hueston PhD
www.stoneforensics.com
www.stoneandtilepros.com
My New Radio Show www.thestoneandtileshow.com
Become a Stone and Tile Inspector..sign up for our next class in October 2009 (only one class per year is offered) www.thestoneandtileschool.com
888-314-9077
702-314-1017
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