Hi all,

I wanted to thank you so much for all of your input.  I arrived at the customer's house and the first thing I noticed was that the slabs were not matched up correctly and the caulking was pulling away.  There was 1/4" lippage in the front where the seam was and 1/16" on the top.  Being that I wasn't there to see the slabs in person (only photos as we do take photos of before, during and after of every job) I assumed Alex would never work on a seam with slabs that aren't together properly because I have heard him discuss with the customers why it would be best to repair it before working on their seam.  Plus the before and after photos we took of the project didn't show this. 

The wife was high strung and said, "It wasn't like that before you guys did the seam."  I explained that repairing a seam would not cause movement like this as I showed her the file with their photos in it and then that's when the husband came in to tell me that they had just had termite work done and the guys had been drilling into the brick foundation all over the house just days after we came to repair the seam.  Then he also told me that 2 times the installers had to come out to re-adjust the slabs (prior to our coming to repair the seams) and they were never happy with the installation.

Clearly, there was movement that caused the seam to crack again.  We (Alex and I) re-adjusted the slabs for them and fixed the seam but they had to pay us for it as the issue was not a direct cause of anything we did.

However, the reason I tell you this is for a couple of things:  1) I was able to identify causes of isses because of you guys and I am grateful and 2) it is simply amazing how people want to take you for a ride and see what they can get from you for free.

Have a great weekend and all thanks again!

Georgia



On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Georgia Rivera <georgia@stonebuff.com> wrote:
Wow...so there are a lot of things to check for.  This is why I am not the one usually on the job site.  I am so glad you guys are teaching me.  :)

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 4:59 PM, <glagana@comcast.net> wrote:

I have one more theory I thought was worth mentioning. I am assuming the DW and seam is near the sink. If  the joint between the sink and granite in not properly caulked, it could  leak water to the plywood  while rinsing down the sink or if the DW vent overflows a little water, etc..  this could bow plywood  and pop the seam. When I install tile counters I always treat the area around the sink and splash with a water proofing material like ultra-set or gold coat.  One more potential trouble spot to rule out :)

 

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Freitag" <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com>
To: "Restoration and Maintenance" <sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 12:44:33 PM GMT -08:00 Tijuana / Baja California
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Granite Seam Repair

Georgia,

 

All of the answers below are correct and could  be causing the problem of re cracking.  Some additional areas to check to see if any of these could be an issue.

 

1.       Check to make sure the counter top has been properly installed, this means  the top needs to be shimmed properly where any voids maybe, are the counter tops level? If not there could be voids under the counter that allow the counter top to move.

 

2.       Where the countertop is seamed is there a counter support in that area, if there is not a support directly under the seam or on each side of the seam then there will probably be movement and the countertop will continue to crack out.

 

3.       If there is a basement under the kitchen, many times the builder did not take into consideration that the countertops would be granite and did not allow for the additional weight and the floors is actually flexing in and the seam is the weakest point.

 

4.       I have actually seem countertops that were installed and  the countertop was cut back into the drywall and into the studs and normal movement in the house caused the movement in the counter thus cracking the seam.

 

5.       While the steam from the dishwasher maybe and issue, I’m not sure that’s what happening  on this counter. I have unfortunately a seam above my dishwasher and it’s been there for 4 years and the seam is as tight as  the day they installed it

 

My guess is you have movement and this is causing the problems

 

 

John E. Freitag

President/Director

The Stone and Tile School

Office 407-567-7652

Cell 407-615-0134

jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com

 

schoollogo

 

www.thestoneandtileschool.com

 

 

 

From: rivera.gm@gmail.com [mailto:rivera.gm@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Georgia Rivera
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 3:59 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Granite Seam Repair

 

Ahhhhhh good thinking!

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:56 PM, <glagana@comcast.net> wrote:

the steam from the DW is most likely affecting the plywood under the granite causing it to swell and push on your seam.  It can affect door panels as well.  Dont rule out other trades standing on your counter to paint, install light trims etc..  over a already weak area under the DW.


----- Original Message -----
From: anthony@777-7797.com
To: "Restoration and Maintenance" <sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:51:18 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Granite Seam Repair

Giorgia

 

I just finished such a repair last week.

 

I am not certain which glue to use, I am actually having trouble with all of them, so go with the Doc’s recommendation, but what I can tell you is no matter what glue you use if you don’t fix the supporting issue, no amount of glue will hold it together.

 

Here’s what you need to do when you fix a seam

 

 

Scenario 1

1)      When a client calls you and says I have a crack, , many times you have to realize that mother nature decided to crack in that particular area so you have to work with her and not against her.  Last week as I inspected the crack along the seam of the sink, I also notice it ran along a joint in the backsplash, nearly invisible but there, and up that cabinets. That meant the home shifted in that area and decided to crack along the weakest areas

2)      Our conclusion was that a silicone which has more flexibility was better suited

 

Scenario 2

3)      When I pressed down on the counter I noticed it “flexed” where the crack was.  This was due to a poor installation and as the Doc said poor support.

4)      So I took a little diamond blade on my Fein tool (grinder) and made a small 3 inch long  incision under the exposed edge of the granite top. I inserted a small stainless steel rod and glued it in place.  The incision must be deep enough so the metal rod can be fully inserted.  Allow the epoxy glue to dry and sanded of the excess.  This stopped the flexing, to  point. Then I repaired the seam. 

Again on these repairs I never give a guarantee.

Antonio

 

Marble Maestro

 

 

 

 

 

From: rivera.gm@gmail.com [mailto:rivera.gm@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Georgia Rivera
Sent: July-20-09 1:15 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Granite Seam Repair

 

OK...ty

 

:)

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Dr Fred <fhueston@stoneandtilepros.com> wrote:

it would be the best glue, but the steam will eventually effect that too

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Georgia Rivera <georgia@stonebuff.com> wrote:

Thank you. I didn't think of the steam.  If I am correct, epoxy is the best route and it will not be 100% effective if it is a steam issue.  This might need to be a routine maintenance thing for him?

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Dr Fred <fhueston@stoneandtilepros.com> wrote:

There can be several reasons. My first guess is that the steam from the dishwasher is causing the problem. The steam will break down the adhesive, especially if it is not expoxy. I would also check the installation to make sure it is properly supported

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Georgia Rivera <georgia@stonebuff.com> wrote:

Hi group.  I hope everyone is having a great Monday.  I have a question I was hoping you guys can help me to understand.

 

(Note: I didn't perform the repair, nor did I see the project site but I would like to have a better understanding so I can address my customer or have the info for future reference.)

 

In the end of April of this year we completed a seam repair project for a customer (my records show that an acrylic filler was used).  The customer's original inquiry stated "The epoxy in the seam has cracked."  I have never known a customer to mention a crack repair issue like this (they usually just say there is a crack or the crack has opened) and this makes me believe that perhaps he attempted to have it repaired in the past either by his own hand or through another professional.

 

He called me today to tell me that the crack has opened again.  (We have never had a crack re-open on us before) Being that I never saw the surface, I was talking blind to him and making an appointment for us to come take a look for him.  However, he did mention in this conversation that it is the seam near the dishwasher.  I little light went on in my head thinking that maybe the vibrations of the dishwasher could be causing this issue.  But how much vibration can come from a dishwasher to crack the counter?  Then again, it is the seam which is the weak point of the counter.

 

I am going to go take a look myself next Tuesday.  I will have Alex with me, too.  But I thought I could get your thoughts about what I should look for and any options that could resolve the issue.  Should I try to start the dishwasher to see how badly it vibrates?  Should I look under the counter to make sure it is properly supported underneath?  Are there any suggestions as far as a products go?  Am I correct in thinking that an epoxy filler should be used instead of acrylic?

 

Thanks!  Please know that I am not the one usually on project sites but I am trying to learn as if I am a restoration pro so that I can be the ultimate sales guru for my business and sound educated when I talk to my customers.  Also, maybe I could help take on some projects on my own eventually (besides tile and grout).  Thanks to all of you, I am learning a lot.

 

Your thoughts?

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--
Frederick M. Hueston PhD
www.stoneforensics.com
www.stoneandtilepros.com
My New Radio Show  www.thestoneandtileshow.com
Become a Stone and Tile Inspector..sign up for our next class in October 2009 (only one class per year is offered) www.thestoneandtileschool.com
888-314-9077
702-314-1017

 

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--
Frederick M. Hueston PhD
www.stoneforensics.com
www.stoneandtilepros.com
My New Radio Show  www.thestoneandtileshow.com
Become a Stone and Tile Inspector..sign up for our next class in October 2009 (only one class per year is offered) www.thestoneandtileschool.com
888-314-9077
702-314-1017

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