They are 5X faster flattening if you are at 8-900 rpms and have the weight. Yes it can be a hassle to move around and tool changing so it isn’t for small jobs. But for 1000+ sf I would not even think of anything else, unless you have a lot of time on your hands... Also SO much easier ofr the operator. One of my teenagers (girl) owed me some $$ (as they do) and she paid it off grinding a marble floor with me supervising. Try that with a swing machine! So, if you have teenagers… For polishing they are better also, the scratch pattern is nicer and the smaller heads get into the v’s better if you go square and diagonal. If you have a variable speed machine you have much more options for coatings removal, concrete grinding, and marble. My preference is Klindex but can be heavy. Lavina is lighter and you can just add weights, which is good because it is more control…another option.
From: Baird Standish [mailto:bairdstandish@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 4:45 AM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] speed, pricing and time
As far as multihead machines go for floors (never used one on counters or steps) I will say that I have been very frustrated with the overall complication involved. I have a 17" Klindex Levighator with the 9 diamond planetario head with 220 power. It is a pain to lug around, it constantly blows fuses and using 9 3" diamonds per stage requires a lot of time changing diamonds out. I use it for small commercial concrete jobs but haven't used the planetary component for years. I find I do just as well with a few bigger diamonds. That being said, the planetery device can convert to 3 heads and I can screw metal diamonds into it so the diamonds don't get thrown. I also got some cups from somewhere that hold the smaller diamonds in place. But I omly need that for heavy grinding. If somebody can convince me that a faster multiheaded machine can be used efficiently I'll look into it. Would a larger machine (21") work better on Marble? I hone marble with a side to side motion as I have been taught,which is appropriate for a 17" machine, but for terrazzo and concrete I just go up and back like a lawn mower, as I have been taught, which better accommodates a bigger machine. Anyway, I am always interested in cool machines, being kind of a gadget guy, but the fewer moving parts the better I think.
Baird
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:51 AM, John Freitag <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com> wrote:
Ken,
I think you need to re-evaluate your process. Unless you are driving 1 each way to the job 4 hours is way too long to do a 40 sq.ft bathroom. In my service business a 40 sq ft bathroom doing all the steps you are doing would not take my guy more than 1 ½ hour max. my next comment is you are probably doing more honing step than you need to do.
Masking and protecting is another area that can take up time and the use of plastic is time consuming and there are other ways to mask that are much faster. Again my guy can mask and protect and area 40 sq ft in less than 5 minutes.
With guys I have trained even guys that have been in business for years find that once they come through my training they find that they were spending too much time doing too many hones and can reduce the time and the job, and have a price and bidding process that determines the time needed to do a job within minutes of the estimate enough said.
Moving on to the planetary head machine for counter, the speed is going to cause you to do more masking and protecting. The machine is 12 inches which means you will have more detail work in the corners, and the machine is bulky to handle.
The time you would save would be minion. Perhaps your spending too much time on each hone ? I find that in many cases the use of planetary head machines usually end up giving more picture framing to deal with then using other methods. In most 95% of all the job our service company does we rarely ever use any honing powders for picture framing ,we hone the floors and then polish.
The faster machine will increase the amount of masking and protecting you need to do even if you are using a splash guard. What I always look at is the productivity of a machine, the cost of that machine and my return on investment. For the counter top machine I don’t think the investment , the possible of increase productivity of that machine is enough to warrant the investment.
In you last comment can you do 3 bathroom in 1 day depends upon the size of the bathroom if each bathroom is 40 sq ft each then my answer is yes with no problems
just my thoughts
John E. Freitag
President/Director
The Stone and Tile School
Office 407-567-7652
Cell 407-615-0134
jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com
From: Propartner / MarblePerfect [mailto:propartner@marbleperfect.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 5:39 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] speed, pricing and time
Hi
I have been doing some thinking about speed pricing and time and thought.getting a samich 12 inch 3 headed machine to do counters
And small bathroom floors. The machine rotates at 1000 rpm can hone and supposed to be able to polish too
Sounds like there is a big speed difference in the industry. I use a 175 rpm swing machine hawk XHD seems to have all
The power needed to do stone and concrete. But 175 is not very fast. Also have a 400 rpm 3 headed Cimex machine
For commercial work or larger jobs, definitely processes faster than the 175 hawk. Cimex makes a diamond finisher model that’s 880 rpm
So the question I am posing to all partners is will the 1000 rpm machine speed things up enough to pay for a 3500 dollar machine.
It takes about four hours to do a small bath floor 40 sq ft 200, 400, diamonds 800 honing powder and then polish,
If there isn’t any lippage and we don’t get picture frames we skip the honing powder. that 4 HRS includes transporting
everything in from the truck setting up protective plastic and taping and drop cloths setting up the floor machine, doing the areas that the floor
machine wont fit in so we use the Makita or Milwalkee hand machine and when finished reload the truck get paid and go to the next job.
When clients want 3 bathroom floors done it takes me 2 days to do it. Or a day and a half.
Do you think I should be able to 3 in one day with the faster machine
Would appreciate anyones thoughts on this
Thanks
KEN DE MELIS
MARBLE PERFECT
From: Paul Bunis [mailto:pbunis@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 12:31 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Cc: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] diamond container
Nice Box !!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 2, 2011, at 10:44 AM, "Lagana Tile" <glagana@comcast.net> wrote:
This has worked well for me. They stay nice and flat. Picked up this case at home depot.
From: Fred Hueston [mailto:fhueston@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 7:24 AM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] diamond container
Putting them in a plastic bag will also allow them to accumulate mold and mildew as well. I like Johns ideas. If you must put them in a bag , than use a mesh bag thats breathable.
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM, John Freitag <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com> wrote:
Stuart .
Plastic bags are not the best way to store or carry you diamonds. The plastic never allows the Velcro on the to dry and will shorten the life of the Velcro.
There are several ways to handle you diamonds,
1. Have a tool box set up for you floor diamond and your hand diamond pads.
2. Place you diamond pads in an open plastic container and place them on a shelf in your truck.
3. Use a wire or a plastic strip slide you diamond onto the wire or plastic and hand them on set them on a shelf in your truck .
I prefer to have and open plastic container and place my diamond into these containers then take my container into the job site. If you have guys that loose things then I recommend giving the technician a tool box with the diamond in them and if he loses them he replaces them
From: Stuart Young [mailto:santafefc@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 9:57 AM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: [sccpartners] diamond container
Gentlemen,
Up till now, I have been storing and transporting my diamond pads in plastic bags. This system leaves a lot to be desired. Do any of you have a good system for storing and transporting your diamond pads?
Stuart Young
Santa Fe Floor care
----- Original Message -----
From: flooramor@aim.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Kitchen Top !
John,
Do you mean either step 3 OR 4 or both 3 AND 4?Sent from a smartphone.
From: "John Freitag" <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 08:57:17 -0400
To: Restoration and Maintenance<sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
ReplyTo: "Restoration and Maintenance" <sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Kitchen Top !
Roger,
If you want to bring a great shine to a serpentine stone there are a couple of ways to achieve this.
1. Hone it if there is damage up to 800 or 1800
2. Then use 5X and crystallize it
3. Use dark granite polishing powders and a crystallizer and wet the powder with the crystallizer using a steel wool pad #1 and polish the powder into the stone. once all the powder is polished into the stone, flip your pad over and kiss then add a little more crystallizer and you will have a great shine and finish.
4. Use MB 20 polish.,
1 feel you will achieve the best result using the granite polishing powder and the crystallizer.
John E. Freitag
President/Director
The Stone and Tile School
Office 407-567-7652
Cell 407-615-0134
jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com
<image001.jpg>
From: Micah [mailto:micahgautier@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:03 PM
To: Restoration and Maintenance
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Kitchen Top !
What's ur question? Are u concerned that the mb 20 is not as good of a solution as if u honed the top? What is the client looking for? This would be a factor
Micah
On Aug 1, 2011, at 6:39 PM, Devin Vance <classicmarblemail@gmail.com> wrote:It's how you set your standards higher than your competitors that sets you apart. Always do the right thing to the best of YOUR capabilities. Who cares what anyone else is doing if you can sleep with a clear conscience.
Devin Vance
Classic Marble Restoration, Inc.
954-815-8023; classicmarblemail@gmail.com
www.classicmarblerestoration.comOn Aug 1, 2011 8:35 PM, "Roger Konarski" <qm144@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a large kitchen counter top to service, the top is serpatene. I have MB 20 – which gave favorable results. My question, would I be doing my client a disservice if we honed and Crystallize the top. Because I have someone I can send who can get the job done. I feel guilty about doing it that way, but how would most of my competitors handle the stone.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Roger Konarski
> --
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--
Frederick M. Hueston PhD
www.stoneforensics.com
www.stoneandtilepros.com
Recommended stone care products http://www.stonecarecentral.comMany of my articles can be found at www.stoneandtilepros.com
Listen to my radio show www.blogtalkradio.com/drfred
office 321 514 6845
See my specialty products at www.godrfred.com
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________________________________________
From the desk of
Baird Standish
Managing Partner
Facility Specialists, LLC
1616 Walnut St.
Philadelphia, PA 19103
Phone: 215-732-7505
Fax: 215-546-9160
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