Hard to show, but maybe this pic:
http://goo.gl/WV6mM
In that bottom left tile with reflection, you might be able to make it out. Those should be straight lines.
On Jul 25, 2012 12:30 PM, "J. Palacio" <flooramor@aim.com> wrote:Any pictures?Well, we finished the job. The customer's happy. No lippage, and it shines. I appreciate all the help from you guys.
But I would be embarrassed to show it to you.
I understand all the mistakes we made, and how to correct, except for one. The floor's reflection looks like a carnival funhouse mirror. The waves cover the whole floor, so are independent of the changes we made in process. In fact, there are up to three waves within the space of a single 18" tile. And of course, you don't find this out until the very last step.
What causes this? And more importantly, how do you prevent and/or correct?
On Jul 19, 2012 12:37 PM, "John Freitag" <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com> wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
>
>
> I agree with Stu a polyester fill will work and hold better and give a better result if you are polishing the floor.
>
>
>
>
>
> John E Freitag
>
> Director
>
> The Stone & Tile School
>
> Office 407-567-7652
>
> Cell 407-615-0134
>
> jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com
>
>
>
>
>
> www.thestoneandtileschool.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: rosen.stuart@gmail.com [mailto:rosen.stuart@gmail.com] On Behalf Of stuart rosen
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:47 AM
>
> To: Stone and Tile PROS Technical Support
> Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Cutting Lippage
>
>
>
> Filling with polyester may be a better choice.
>
> On Jul 19, 2012 10:07 AM, "Eric - DGG" <eric@dirtygroutguys.com> wrote:
>
> John, I'm using Tenax Travertine Filler 3G.
>
> On Jul 19, 2012 9:46 AM, "John Freitag" <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com> wrote:
>
> Eric .
>
>
>
> I would not fill the hole the second time until I was completed done with my 220 hone. Filling at a 120 you could still pull out some of the fill while doing the 220 .
>
>
>
> What are you filling the holes with ?
>
>
>
>
>
> John E Freitag
>
> Director
>
> The Stone & Tile School
>
> Office 407-567-7652
>
> Cell 407-615-0134
>
> jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com
>
>
>
>
>
> www.thestoneandtileschool.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: subewl@gmail.com [mailto:subewl@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Eric - DGG
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:52 PM
> To: Stone and Tile PROS Technical Support
> Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Cutting Lippage
>
>
>
> Stu, while our other machine ground the living room at a 40 grit, I started in on the dining room with the 100 metal. Completed that and got halfway through with the 50 resin before it caught on the large whole. Using these resins:
>
>
>
> http://www.stonecarecentralpro.com/TX3_Triple_Thick_Diamond_Pads_p/m3-tx.htm
>
>
>
> So I patched those holes & will get started again in the morning. I'll patch again after my 120 resin.
>
>
>
>
> Eric Lewis, Technical Mgr
>
> DirtyGroutGuys.com
> West Chester, PA 19380
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:29 PM, stuart rosen <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:
>
> I saw some of the holes in your pics-did you finish the second cut.
>
> what type of pads-can you place a riser under the pad that may help-
>
> you could fill some of the larger ones but its kinda early as your main concern is to ready the floor for the resins and make sure the scratch patterns are were you want them.
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Eric - DGG <eric@dirtygroutguys.com> wrote:
>
> Turns out the holes I opened are so large that they ripped off chunks of my 50 resins. Looks like I'll have to stop here & fill.
>
> Any problems with that?
>
> On Jul 18, 2012 3:13 PM, "SubEWL" <subewl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Turns out the holes I opened are so large that they ripped off chunks of my 50 resins. Looks like I'll have to stop here & fill.
>
> Any problems with that?
>
> On Jul 18, 2012 12:54 PM, "stuart rosen" <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:
>
> Good for you guys-you still have a ways to go. Stay off those walls to leave room to feather the following cuts. Get thru this first cut and reassess the floor before starting the second cut.
>
> We can probably find a few more things you can change as you go.
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Paul@dirtygroutguys.com <paul@dirtygroutguys.com> wrote:
>
> The first good news I have heard in a long time. It must be a relief.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 18, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Eric - DGG wrote:
>
>
>
> Well, the combination of the new pad drivers & switching to 4 diamonds from 5 has served to reduce our cutting times by almost half. The driver definitely holds the diamonds better. Nothing has moved. Easy to see the change in the slurry as we're cutting better.
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2012 7:31 PM, "stuart rosen" <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:
>
> I think the tulips(from scc) would be a better choice-super abrasive makes a great metal diamond also. Gran quartz has surface pro which we use often as it comes in a 70 metal followed by a 120 copper reducing the scratch patterns nicely.
>
> I shouldn't say the brazed diamonds suck as I only used them years ago and didn't have good experiences with them.
>
> Maybe I was using them incorrectly-the fact is in your case that it shouldn't take this long to knock this floor down.
>
> I think if you switch out the diamonds you may get better results.
>
> It could be that you are getting a blanket of slurry under the pad driver significantly reducing the pressure on the diamonds.
>
> There is something impeding your progress so you have to be proactive and change something.
>
> I dont think that crema crappacino stuff can be that hard of a stone. It could be but I tend to think it is more of a cheaper marble as it is sold at many outlet type places. I would bet a dollar it comes from china.
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Eric - DGG <eric@dirtygroutguys.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Stu, just got home. You mean like these?
>
>
>
> http://www.stonecarecentralpro.com/Magnum_Concrete_Grinding_Pad_p/mag.htm
>
>
>
> I mean, besides their spelling sinter incorrectly. These look even more aggressive than what we have. Here's video of how we're cutting now:
>
>
>
> http://goo.gl/ZEXNj
>
>
>
> At this point I've got Velcro drivers coming in the morning. I'll first try with our existing diamonds and go from there. The learning never stops.
>
>
>
>
> Eric Lewis, Technical Mgr
>
> DirtyGroutGuys.com
> West Chester, PA 19380
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 4:58 PM, stuart rosen <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:
>
> Eric-besides the pad drivers and the floating diamonds(diddnt know you were using these type of metals)-I would suggest you use regular sintered metal diamonds(segmented).
>
> You are using a brazed diamond pads-the diamonds are too exposed-they will work good on concrete but suck on marble.
>
> They cut good for a while but they are too agressive.
>
> It may be the reason the job is taking so long-the exposed diamonds lose their cutting ability on marbles and granites.
>
> Also they are two damn thin and will put your pad driver so close to the floor you could damage the velcro.
>
> You need a normal set of delippage tools-send those things back .
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Eric - DGG <eric@dirtygroutguys.com> wrote:
>
> Learning from Stu that we've got the wrong type pad driver:
>
> http://goo.gl/xyJHe
>
> Pads migrating around the perimeter. The driver is a plastic type, I think called "Mighty-Lok". We should be using Velcro.
>
> The other problem is that the pads appear to be floating, and causing the Velcro to delaminate:
>
> http://goo.gl/3W3ah
>
> This is less a lippage job than an oil exploration one... and our drilling equipment is failing. But we're learning.
>
> On Jul 17, 2012 2:19 PM, "Eric - DGG" <eric@dirtygroutguys.com> wrote:
>
> Lippage between 2-3 dimes thick.
>
> On Jul 17, 2012 12:33 PM, "John Freitag" <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com> wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
>
>
> How thick was the lippage when you started??? You are using the correct diamond , have you added any weight to your machine?
>
>
>
>
>
> John E Freitag
>
> Director
>
> The Stone & Tile School
>
> Office 407-567-7652
>
> Cell 407-615-0134
>
> jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com
>
>
>
>
>
> www.thestoneandtileschool.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: subewl@gmail.com [mailto:subewl@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Eric - DGG
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:02 PM
> To: Restoration and Maintenance
> Subject: Fwd: RE: [sccpartners] Cutting Lippage
>
>
>
> I'm using the 3" 40 grit metals from Stone Care Central:
>
> http://www.stonecarecentralpro.com/Lippage_Tool_p/m3-lt.htm
>
> The slurry looks like:
>
> http://goo.gl/f3CyO
>
> http://goo.gl/7DHAn
>
> After 24 mins of cutting at 2' x 5' area, we're still left with lippage like:
>
> http://goo.gl/SG1ya
>
> Lots of water for lubricant. Stone still gets warm to the touch.
>
> On Jul 17, 2012 9:25 AM, "J. Palacio" <flooramor@aim.com> wrote:
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > I don't know that you can time de-lipping. Too many variables... It's akin to your GPS telling you how long you will be stuck in traffic.
> >
> > I pay attention to the stone and the feedback it is giving me. The slurry, the sound, the scratch pattern. Sometimes I like to use China Pencil to help me visualize and determine my remaining lips.
> >
> > You could knock down some stubborn lips with your hand tool, but careful not to dip the floor. Easily done if not careful. Work a larger area to bring down the floor more uniformly.
> >
> > What kind of pads are you using? How does your slurry look?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 16, 2012, at 10:39 PM, stuart rosen <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Eric,
> >> Hard to see the clarity in the pics but almost looks like a light emperador which would make sense if you are pulling fill out.
> >> Many different qualities out there today but if fill is coming out you need to decide how you will refill. How much material are you dislodging?
> >> That stone is probably medium hardness so it will take you some time-but being patient and taking your time though the first cut will help you.
> >> If the lippage is so bad that you are throwing diamonds it may be a good idea to float those areas with the same grout the tiler used.
> >> You could have told the tiler to float the grout out like that on the whole floor except on top of the baseboard-Nextime. You ll be fine-like you said this is school and you will learn a boatload. We all will help you thru it if you need us.
> >> If you grouted the machine will run more stable and smooth. If it is too late for that then there are some other methods to control the bouncing but they could add to the time(grind down high edges by hand dry with dust control and hepa vac). You didn't mention that it was throwing off your diamonds so if it isn't then keep moving slowly and listen to the machine. As it becomes quieter the floor is getting flat.
> >> Notice when you start a new areas as opposed to a flattened area the clicking of the machine. when that machine gets quiet those areas are close to flat. Make sure that you concentrate and the perimeter of your first grind-also when the floor dries any shiny or dark spots will reveal where the floor isn't flat. You will see this at the corners of the tiles. These areas you can go back over or grind down by hand.
> >> Do you your first cut bu working small sections at a time and moving on once there flat. You can always go back over sections.
> >> We very rarely use a level to check the floor.
> >> Good luck!
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Eric - DGG <eric@dirtygroutguys.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Stu. It's marble. Don't know the name. I even have an unopened box, but no identifying label. It's a tan/beige marble. We've opened many holes in our grinding. Hope this is visible:
> >>>
> >>> http://goo.gl/24yoS
> >>>
> >>> http://goo.gl/qVcib
> >>>
> >>> Tiler's first natural stone installation. No leveling devices... tiles floated every which way. Severe lippage. 18" tile, brickwork pattern, initially sanded 1/4" grout lines. We made him cut out the sanded grout. He put back unsanded, with a TEC acrylic additive. Just 500 square... a dining & living room. But, for example, a 10 square cut is taking 3 twelve minute passes to get level on 40 grit diamonds, with 30 lbs. weight.
> >>>
> >>> We've finished the first 150 square. I mistakenly started the first 100 square with a floor pad. Went back over with a hard driver. Only as we'd already taken off all the shine, the only way to tell was by feel. Most of the floor is smooth, but there are a couple spots where the floor machine bucks as though not flat. When it's still doing that after 3 or 4 twelve minute cuts, I got nervous about going farther. What is the objective standard for knowing that the floor is flat? Straight edge? Laser?
> >>>
> >>> I like the idea of the Monkey pads for the edges. We told the contractor that we would have a tough time at the edges. While we're covered, I would like to leave as good a result as possible.
> >>>
> >>> Understand, from the home owner's point of view, the reason for all this is "trip hazard". Well, I can assure that there's no chance of that.
> >>>
> >>> But I consider this a pre-paid lippage school. I've got the rest of the week to finish & I'd like to exit this job with experience & confidence.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Eric Lewis, Technical Mgr
> >>> DirtyGroutGuys.com
> >>> West Chester, PA 19380
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 7:47 PM, stuart rosen <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Eric,
> >>>> First if your doing grinding cuts keep the setup rigid so you get good clean cuts.
> >>>> If your flattening the floor there is no need to run a flexible pad cause the floor will be flat except for an area along the edge. If you needed to you could always run a fiber grit pad (ie,twister,cps,monkey) to deal with frames at the(btwn your 220 and 400 grit resin diamond cuts) edge.Or run honing powder if you needed.
> >>>> Your biggest concern is the making sure you spend enough time on that first cut and you create a clean tight profile so you can move to the next grit. Make sure you take your time and let the floor dry so you can your scratch pattern clearly.
> >>>> What type of stone are you working on? How large is the floor?-softer of course is more forgiving and harder isnt. Keep the random scratches in check.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Eric - DGG <eric@dirtygroutguys.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When cutting lippage, at what point do you switch back to a floor pad from the solid pad driver? After the first cut; in our case the 40 metal? Or would you do the next 100 metal cut on the solid driver, switching back to a floor pad for the resin cuts?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My novice thinking is that you're done cutting after the initial 40 metal, and you want all the subsequent passes to conform to it using the flexibility of the floor pad.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Powered by http://DiscussThis.com
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Stu Rosen
> >>>> 201-446-1200
> >>>> www.mbstonecare.com
> >>>> www.mbstone.com
> >>>> www.stoneshine.com
> >>>> "EVERYTHING MATTERS "
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >> Stu Rosen
> >> 201-446-1200
> >> www.mbstonecare.com
> >> www.mbstone.com
> >> www.stoneshine.com
> >> "EVERYTHING MATTERS "
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
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> --
>
> Regards,
> Stu Rosen
> 201-446-1200
> www.mbstonecare.com
>
> www.mbstone.com
> www.stoneshine.com
> "EVERYTHING MATTERS "
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
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> --
>
> Regards,
> Stu Rosen
> 201-446-1200
> www.mbstonecare.com
>
> www.mbstone.com
> www.stoneshine.com
> "EVERYTHING MATTERS "
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
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>
> Paul@dirtygroutguys.com
>
> GTS Dirt Extraction
> 484-797-7775
> www.dirtygroutguys.com
> www.stoneprophets.com
>
>
>
> ________________________________
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> --
>
> Regards,
> Stu Rosen
> 201-446-1200
> www.mbstonecare.com
>
> www.mbstone.com
> www.stoneshine.com
> "EVERYTHING MATTERS "
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
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>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Stu Rosen
> 201-446-1200
> www.mbstonecare.com
>
> www.mbstone.com
> www.stoneshine.com
> "EVERYTHING MATTERS "
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
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