Agree John, I have seen the guards go the way of crystallizing natural stone.  At first concrete polishing was based on diamonds and hardner densifier which at the beginning were sodium based ( applied the last step)  in came the lithium based, and the guards.  At the beginning I really liked it, but the competion were just putting all guard, burnishing it and selling it as polished concrete.  The prices dropped dramatically, and wear of the concrete was sooner than with the old style of polishing.  Heck some guards have acrylics in them (strip the floor and you will loose the shine).  I guess I saw it coming, the crystallization phase of polished concrete, guard the heck out of it and burn burn burn....


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 7:39 PM, john jackson <kcstoneguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
our old concrete had granite and chirt (flint) aggregate, the new has admix, soft limestone with very little cream. too many contractors are getting their shine from guards, and many of the manuf are pushing guards to get a high shine with less diamonds..the big problem is the concrete finishers these days really suck. they throw lots of cure and seal, leave hills on the floor, so you expose big rock when you grind the cure off..combine that with the cheap dot pads , diama brush etc that has opened the door for all the jan san folks to polish with their powerflite buffers , and you have the perfect storm, which is why i stick to terrazzo mostly.

From: john jackson <kcstoneguy@yahoo.com>

To: Stone and Tile PROS Technical Support <sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:25 PM

Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Concrete polishing.

i might add there are so many variables with concrete i wouldnt begin to know how to tell someone in another part of the country how to polish their concrete. I know kansas city concrete, and i could .talk for hours on the problems we have encountered here.  big difference between new and old concrete..then you get into the aggregate and you can eat up a lot of money real quick on diamonds. i stick to restorations of old floor mostly, the price has dropped so low its not funny. i think the industry has done the best they can  to ruin for the serious contractor.i stick to the jobs 2000 sf and under. i get asked to bid the big box stores all the time , but they want it done in 3 days and under 2 per ft. i dont need that headache. the big problem is people see a new pour,f50 flatness and want a 100 year old basement to look like that


From: stuart rosen <mail@stoneshine.com>
To: Stone and Tile PROS Technical Support <sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com>
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:09 PM
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Concrete polishing.

Well said Jason!


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Jason Francis <jfrancis@marbleglow.com> wrote:
Since concrete is pretty much all I do anymore, most of them residential, here are some thoughts:

As someone mentioned, do a mock up. The biggest issue with polished concrete is when expectations of the homeowner are not met. 

If your floor is flat and smooth(use a straight edge to see), edges included, than you should be fine. As everyone knows the most difficult part of polishing concrete is the edges. If edges are not troweled smooth like the rest of the floor, you may not get them to ever match. Exposing large aggregate may be the answer but sometimes this will not work either.

Most basement floors are not finished very well on the edges, therefore we find it is a rarity to be able to do a cream polish. Most specs call for Ff numbers of at least 40. My general rule is that if I find a 1/4 defect in 10'(Ff 25), it should not be cream polished, but ground with at least two or three metal bonds. I have never been able to cream polish a basement that has been hand troweled. Look for basements that a power trowel has been used. It means the floor will be in better condition.

If you find you are blowing through your diamonds, stop and densify. Those of us you do this regularly use soft or hard bonded diamonds to match the hardness of the concrete, so our diamonds last longer.

Hope this helps. Have fun!

Jason Francis
econcrete


On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 10:40 PM, John Freitag <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com> wrote:
Kevin ,

If you want basic concrete polishing training only I can train you on the
basics.  Call me before you pass on this job


John E Freitag
Director
The Stone & Tile School
Office 407-567-7652
Cell 407-615-0134
jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com



www.thestoneandtileschool.com



-----Original Message-----
From: K. Hudson [mailto:klhudson16@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 9:25 PM
To: Stone and Tile PROS Technical Support
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Concrete polishing.

Thank you all for your great advise! However,since I am not currently
professionally trained in polishing concrete I am considering passing this
job on! With that in mind who do you all recommend I contact for training on
concrete polishing? Thanks!

Kevin
N-Motion Stone and Tile

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 6, 2013, at 8:51 PM, "John Freitag"
<jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com> wrote:

> Kevin
> If the concrete had been finished properly the honing and polishing is
easy.
> Purchase some concrete diamonds . if the concrete is a good pour and
> smooth good cream finish then you can probably start with a 100 grit
> or 220 grit diamond, then after the200 grit diamond add you densfilier
> I prefer to allow the densflier to penetrate into the concrete for at
> least 1 hour. vac up any excess materials.
> Then I prefer to use a finish mop and mop on a very thin thin coat of
> the densflier and allow to set over night. Then come back the next day
> and hone
> 400 , 800, 1500 , 3000 and you should have a great polish.
>
>
> John E Freitag
> Director
> The Stone & Tile School
> Office 407-567-7652
> Cell 407-615-0134
> jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com
>
>
>
> www.thestoneandtileschool.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: N-Motion Stone and Tile Care
> [mailto:klhudson@atlantastoneandtilecare.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 11:13 PM
> To: Stone and Tile PROS Technical Support
> Subject: [sccpartners] Concrete polishing.
>
> Partners,
> I have been asked to polish 450 sq ft of concrete in a customer basement.
> The concrete has been down since October of 2012. I am looking for
> advise from those of you who have expertise in this area. Any advise
> would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Kevin Hudson
> N-Motion Stone and Tile
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
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Marble Glow
Jason Francis
Sales / Lead Stone Pro
www.marbleglow.com
333 Norton Road
Red Hook, NY 12571
718-514-7343 NYC 
845-208-8289 Upstate 

 






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Dayron Padilla
Perfect Marble Restoration
(305) 970-0213