Fred-to me that is the strength of this forum or any forum for that matter. Information without drama based on facts and respect for all parties.
I agree with you there will always be the DIY group. From past experience this group will either be handy and accomplish their project nicely. Or they will get in over there heads and hire someone. They will have an issue with the price and then watch everything you do. Or they will realize early on that they need someone experienced and pay you a fair price and not be up your ass all day asking questions that make you wanna bite your tongue or slap the customer(haven't slapped one yet). 
Most marble customers here in this area aren't the DIY group(god only knows what happens in florida)-and if they are we wouldn't want those type of clients.
They are usually the same folks that bought the stone from home depot and then installed it themselves. They always need a good buffing -never anything more!
We don't worry about that type of customer we would rather see them do it themselves.
As far as the stone refinishers or carpet cleaner working for a $1.00 a SF we wont worry too much about them either.
Remember Uncle Sam is already getting 25 % or more of every dollar they earn.
I see it first hand when guys come thru our training and they are using diamond impregnated pads and systems other than traditional to hone and polish floors.
They are sometimes reborn.  Believe me what we do is no miracle-just hard work, finding solutions, a little passion and dedication.
Anyone who thinks stone refinishing is a quick road to wealth- think again.
 


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Fred Hueston <fhueston@gmail.com> wrote:
Good points and I love the fact we can discuss this in a respectful intelligent matter.. I do have one comment about by passing the learning curve as follows:

Ask yourself this question   WHAT IF it was possible. I'm not saying it is and I agree there needs to be some learning. But take for example Home Depot or Lowes. Before these stores most consumers would have to hire professionals and now they can do it themselves. I hate to say this and I don't want to hurt any ones feelings but this may be the future in stone refinishing. I don't want it to happen but we have to be ready if it does. There are already  chain stores in Europe that are renting machines and diamonds to the consumer and showing them how to refinish wood floors as well as marble flooring.  How about carpet cleaning. Years ago the consumer wouldn't think twice about doing it themselves. Now more carpet cleaning machines are being rented. Not just in rental stores but grocery stores as well. I am not supporting this I am just saying  WHAT IF?

On the other hand there are always going to be consumers who do not want to do it themselves and those are the consumers to market to. In addition these new products and future products will make your job easier. How many of you remember when we could get $10 a square foot or more to hone and polish a marble floor?  I remember thinking thirty years ago..WHAT IF someone could hone and polish a marble floor for under $2 a square foot? and now there are companies doing it for as little as a $1.00
Think about it? What If?


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:29 AM, stuart rosen <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:
Hey is this the same guy?
 
Looks creepy-sorry but it does. I am always respectful of every ones opinions and their views.
Why would a successful guy resort to this type of marketing. Kind of makes them loose their credibility.
I don't speak for everyone else but I don't appreciate being marketed to like a kindergarten kid.
 
I am sure they are all good guys and I always keep an open mind. I do  a lot of grinding/flattening jobs and there is always issues of one kind or another. Issues that we have been able to work though based on our experience and the constant learning we do on each job. It doesn't get boring. We take pride in our flattening jobs and have paid for that experience in blood and sweat.
When I see a product that is going to make someone who is just getting into the industry bypass the learning curve that most of us have experienced I want to know more. Cant seem to find any info on this other than this type of hype in the UK.
Doesn't seem like anyone here has used them.
A three step system to full polish including flattening is something we have never done before. Don't know anyone who has done that. Would like to find out more info about this product just based on the facts. I think it would be a good idea to let us(the group) test them as well.
 
 I agree with you Fred- we have seen so many great breakthrough miracle products that just never really were. They were just marketed by  good pitchmen. The last one we were involved with was vitremela. Was gonna change the entire marble counter top and vanity refinishing business. Etch proof marble in every ones home at an affordable price. Their videos looked remarkable -looked so easy to do and so easy to sell to customers.
 It just never happened. All those jobs had to be done with clearstone which is by no means a miracle product and has a complex process that must be followed.. 


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Fred Hueston <fhueston@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Guys

As most of you know I am very skeptical when people make claims that they have the best product or procedure that will change the industry. I have been in this business for many years and have seen all the "miracle" products come and go. I agree with all of you that products should be field tested. I have personally been involved with actual testing and demonstrations of these products. Furthermore, I asked the people at Cheetah Pads if they were doing any field testing. To my surprise, yes they are. As a matter of fact they have been field tested on hundreds of jobs with positive feedback. With that said I asked if I could talk to one of their testers. The following is the response I got from Mike Philbin in the UK. I know Mike, he was one of my students and is a very straight forward guy. As a matter of fact he did not like the Cheetah Pads when he was first introduced to them, but as you will see in the following email he has been very successful with the pads and the pucks and just completed a job for the Queen of England. I encourage you to check out his photos on his facebook or to contact him directly. John has been busy but will soon have the results of his testing, so please be patient.

One additional note: These pads cannot be used like traditional diamonds. Otherwise you won't get the proper results. Please read the directions or get support or training. Dana will be releasing a video soon on how to use them properly. Procedure is the key--you can have the fastest car in the world but if you don't know how to drive it you won't win the race.

Hi Fred  

Just thought I should say a few words 

Ok, Two years ago we saw the Cheetah Pads in action and quite frankly we weren’t convinced. After all, we already had a really fast grinding and polishing system !

 But Dana Kothrade (Cheetah Pad Inventor) has spent the last 2 years gathering feedback, data, opinions and ideas from people he knows around the world and has totally redesigned the Cheetah Pad System.

He has now collectively engineered, designed and built what we consider to be hands down, the most advanced, effective, efficient, versatile and user friendly system for Stone Restoration ever created

Sometimes you just have to your hands up and say WOW! This is it! He’s done it! and you just have to be part of it.

 There hasn’t been any official announcement yet and sales are already through the roof in the USA & UK Markets. Experience stone professionals are being blown away by the NEW Cheetah Puck Systems capability.  I promise, you're mind is going to blown away by this simple two- step process, using the Cheetah Pucks and our Monster Polishing Powder. The Stone World is never going to be the same again!

 The All New Step 2 Cheetah Puck disc can remove very significant damage and severe etching but in just one step, it will leave the surface super smooth and it takes very little polishing compound, water & 11000 grit monkey pad and time to get an extremely high gloss finish with unbelievable clarity.

Include the Step 1 Cheetah Puck and that’s just three steps from lippage removal, to full polish on most marbles. Unbelievable? Not Anymore!!! 

 Dana is a crazy guy and has so much more amazing stuff coming real soon, i'm really looking forward to working with him and bringing his passion for stone floor restoration to you all.

 

Best Regards

 

Mike

 

Mike Philbin

Director

Nu-Life Floor Care

Specialists In Floor Restoration & Maintenance

Stone Floor Care Consultants &

Manufacturers of Stone Care Treatments

 

Web: www.nulifefloorcare.co.uk

Web: www.stonecareuk.co.uk

Web: www.floorcareexperts.co.uk

Web: www.stonecare.tv





On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Mike Marsoun <nulifesc@bigpond.com> wrote:
I am interested to know about the Cheetahs specifically. I tried the monkey pads in the past and was not impressed. They seemed very non aggressive and I don't use them now, prefer my Spinflex pads from CPS. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 15/08/2013, at 12:30 AM, propartner ken <propartner@marbleperfect.com> wrote:

Ken De Melis

I have to chime in on all the conversations about monkey pads and cheetah pucks
and all the MARKETING HYPE about this stuff. back in january or december i fianally
decided to try some of DANA,S monkey pads and cheetah pads/pucks on a project
i had coming up so i spent about 600 buck purchasing the full set of eight inch monkey
pads 200,400,800,1500,3000,8000,11000 and also the full set of 8 inch cheetah pads
they are more like an 8 inch puck to me.

the 200 grit monkey pad in a shower were a dismal disappointment they did not have any value in that experience so back
on the shelf in the trailer it went.
same shower 8 inch cheetah puck this did resurface the wall and i went thru the whole set to see the results and it was just ok.

but when i used a regular 200,400,800.1800 grit 8 inch turbo diamond pad from stone care central that cost me only 25 bucks each
i got a faster result and a better looking finish on the same travertine shower

i have had some jobs where the monkey and or twister pads have been ok to use and got the desired results always a honed only or a high hone only finish they are in my opinion only good for that type of finish because they lack the CLARITY and REFLECTION that true professionals require of polish stone work.. why anyone thinks the cheetah pads a the second coming of easy better faster is certainly not what i experience in any of my testing results and i don't appreciate DANA coming on to HYPE product that is no better than what we have all used in the past. has anyone noticed the new pucks look more and more like resins mounted to a 3 m pad. i velcro 3 inch
diamonds to hogs hair pads all the time and it works great to ride over lippage too. why spend more money for a poorer quality outcome
since they are on generation 22 or 24 i must have generation 12 since i bought them 7 or 8 months ago. so DANA i challenge you to
replace these pads with your new stuff and i will honestly test them and report unbiased results back to the pros.

Ken De Melis
Marble Perfect



On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Mike Marsoun <nulifesc@bigpond.com> wrote:

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--
Frederick M. Hueston PhD
www.stoneforensics.com
www.stoneandtilepros.com

Recommended stone care products  http://www.stonecarecentral.com

Many of my articles can be found at www.stoneandtilepros.com
Listen to my radio show   www.blogtalkradio.com/drfred
office             321 514 6845      
See my specialty products at  www.godrfred.com



--



--
Frederick M. Hueston PhD
www.stoneforensics.com
www.stoneandtilepros.com

Recommended stone care products  http://www.stonecarecentral.com

Many of my articles can be found at www.stoneandtilepros.com
Listen to my radio show   www.blogtalkradio.com/drfred
office             321 514 6845      
See my specialty products at  www.godrfred.com

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--
Regards,
Stu Rosen
201-446-1200
www.mbstonecare.com 
www.mbstone.com
www.mbstonepro.com
www.stoneshine.com
"EVERYTHING MATTERS "