Hi Ken,
 
With the Cheetah System, to my understanding, in-between steps the area needs to be flushed out with a lot of clean water so to remove left over residue from the puck or pad before it. If this is not done, what you are experiencing could be a result of that. I am curious did you thoroughly clean before and after each step? No offense, I just want to know.


On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 7:25 PM, propartner ken <propartner@marbleperfect.com> wrote:
my tests so far with the 8 inch pads have been on the following
1 shower walls of polished marble and honed travertine,
2 polished  vanities and honed vanities
3 small bathroom floors polished and honed

in every case we where never able to achieve anything better than a high honed finish with monkey or the cheetahs

now lets put this into proper perspective if you go to restore a scratched and etched honed or high honed finished
wall, vanity or floor the results are fine and yes it is able to leave a better looking stone finish.

but when it comes to restoring say a crema marfill polished stone that is scratched and etched both monkey and
cheetah pads cannot come anywhere near the high clarity and mirror like reflection that we reproduce every day in the field on
residential and commercial jobs.

also i am fully aware of the more unique challenges of shower walls with talc buildup that has become part of the stone over
time and with regular 7 or 8 inch turbo resin diamonds i buy from stone care central for only 25 buck each and they last a long
long time.

if i want to duplicate a factory honed finish again for a client i can usually start with 220 diamonds to remove 98 percent of the scratches
and etch marks then use 400 diamonds or honing powder and then apply sealer. done and finished great...why buy more expensive
monkey pads when diamonds i already owned can do it

please remember i have no products to sell here i just dont won't other Stone and Tile pro's partners throwing away 600 bucks or more
like i did for a full set of monkey and cheetah pads and feeling ripped off by some slick marketing hype about the great new think that
supposed to make this massive change to this industry its just not living up to the marketing. have you ever bought a product and it just
did not live up to expectations??? sure we all have and when you call about it they say thats the first we ever heard of that problem thats
exactly what i was told when i call dana's support girl at the office....no solution or help at all. i am out with my crew doing this work
5 days a week i am certainly smarter than the average monkey,

i would challenge dana to prove me wrong about all this but he has yet to directly respond in any way to any of my posts in this thread

Ken De Melis
Marble Perfect


On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Ron Moore <rmoore@americanstonecare.com> wrote:

The other thing to remember about walls is the amount of pressure. We can't get the same pounds per square inch on walls. A weighted floor machine produces drastically different results.

On Aug 18, 2013 5:41 PM, "Mike Marsoun" <nulifesc@bigpond.com> wrote:
Ken.  Was your bad experience limited to walls? Have you tried them on floors? As you know, walls always take special techniques to deal with mineral scale and soap scum and can mess up the way polishing products work. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 19/08/2013, at 7:29 AM, propartner ken <propartner@marbleperfect.com> wrote:

Dana,
the thing i dont understand about the monkey and cheetah pads is they are being promoted by you as so easy a monkey
can do it and an employee will never hold us hostage again....... so why with all my experience using regular diamonds
and getting fantastic results.am i not able to achieve the same clarity and reflection with your monkey or cheetah pads that
are supposed to be so easy a monkey could do it. i am a highly trained and experienced craftsman working my trade but
i guess i am not a smart enough monkey to get better than a high honed finish with your products.

please read my earlier post in this same thread for more in about the testing i did with 8 inch monkey and cheetah pads
if you have a newer bath that produce better results please let me know. by the way you asked for my contact info so here it is

Ken De Melis
Marble Perfect
www.MarblePerfect.com
50 lockes corner rd
Alton NH.03809
617-699-4509 Ma.
603-393-2776 Nh & Me.


On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Dana Kothrade <dana@innovativesurfacesolutions.com> wrote:
Please contact me directly at this email address for technical assistance but order through Stone Care Central. We are setting them up as distributors to save you all money if you decide to order. Our website has to show a higher than distributor price. 

Life expectancy ranges as you know. Can you tell me:

Total machine weight?
Rotary or planetary?
Do you want to flatten the floor?
Are you going to use coarse metal bond diamonds first?
Do you want to go straight cheetahs or integrate cheetahs and a polishing compound?


Respectfully,

Dana Kothrade
CEO/Director of R&D
Innovative Surface Solutions

On Aug 16, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Adam Bartos <info@restoreyourtiles.com> wrote:

Dana and others, who use(d) them,
What is their live expectancy? How many sq ft of lets say crema marfill I can restore with 1 set? I used crema marfill, because I think everyone knows their hardness and popularity.
I noticed that you sell them by set, can individual grits can be purchased without buying entire set?
 
Adam Bartos
BiO Tile & Grout Restoration, LLC

On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Dana Kothrade <Dana@innovativesurfacesolutions.com> wrote:
We are located in Escondido California. Click on the Innovative website below then click on education for details.


Respectfully,

Dana Kothrade
CEO/Director of R&D
Toll Free 800-280-0333
1229 Simpson Way
Escondido Ca 92029



On Aug 16, 2013, at 4:53 AM, "Pat Staples" <cpstaples@msn.com> wrote:

Dana,
Where is your training facility located if we wanted to come out.
 
Thank you
Carl Staples
Classic Marble & Stone Restoration
www.Marblerestore.com
610-356-4100
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Cheetah Pucks

Please have him contact me or pass along his info. I'd be glad to offer assistance. 

Respectfully,

Dana Kothrade
CEO/Director of R&D
Innovative Surface Solutions

On Aug 15, 2013, at 7:44 PM, stuart rosen <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:

Thank You John-I don't think any of us are concerned with these products just curious about the performance.
Some weeks ago a series of posts grabbed our attention -well at least mine. I have heard mixed reviews of the product over a course of time.
If Tony says they have a place and they can save time I respect his opinion highly(Thank You Tony). 
I don't know any system or product that is a one fit all.
 
We have all seen the marketing side of these products as well. Cant seem to find any info on the product except the marketing.
 
Most headaches we have in the field don't have much to do with the abrasives at least not in my experience. Certainly polishing powders, stripping, finishing issues and masking issues are high up on the list.
The diamond abrasives are the least of an issue when training an employee. It is the presentation process such as setting up and prepping the jobsite. Masking, wire management, protection of the household , water and slurry management and of course customer management is what we train.
The diamonds are the easier part.
We would never run a crew without an experienced refinisher.  
We already have effective efficient tools but we keep an open mind and want to know more about the pucks.
If they have value in our business then we would use them like the many other products we use.
Predictability and value is why we purchase products.
Sorry Dana, no disrespect but every post you make just seems like an ad.
The video wont be a marketing pitch-Really!
Fred-ever see a product video that wasn't a marketing pitch?
John states proper training is needed and Dana says they do everything and are simple to use.
Its confusing.
Ken Demelis posted yesterday about a set of cheetahs that didn't work well for him.
Dana can you help him get these off his shelf. He asked for a newer replacement but maybe he isn't using them properly.
Would you take a minute and contact him. You may have missed his post,  
 
 
 
 


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Tony Warney <tony@excelstoneandtilecare.com> wrote:
I have been using the cheetah pads and Monkey pads since they were first put on the market. Every one who has asked me about them I tell them.
They are another tool in your box. They have saved me 100'S of hour in production time. Do they work on everything ? Not yet. I have not tested the pucks yet, but I know
they will do well. Like all tools there is a learning curve. I refuse to dismiss a system because it is a not one fits all. 



On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Dana Kothrade <dana@innovativesurfacesolutions.com> wrote:
Mike,

thank you for the suggestions. That's great advice I'm taking to heart. I'm getting together with my team to map out the video including your suggestions and some factual technical data from us as well as third party testing by experienced contractors such as yourselves and I'm very interested to see johns results as well. 

The video will not be a marketing pitch. A fact based documentary style of how this came to be to start off and how we work directly with experienced contractors from all over the world to develop the next generations so quickly. Its absolutely in no way the result of my efforts solely but a product of many intelligent experienced stone craftsmen all working together to create a tool they can all use to get the results they are after but with less headaches, more versatility and in less time while being duplicatable enough that you will never be held hostage by an employee if his replacement takes a very very short apprenticeship due to the simplicity of the Cheetahs. 

Thanks again for the advice. Please share any other ideas you guys have, after all the whole point of this video and the whole Cheetah System is to help you guys by giving you effective efficient tools for your stone restoration businesses. 

Respectfully,

Dana Kothrade
CEO/Director of R&D
Innovative Surface Solutions
Office 760-738-4537

On Aug 15, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Mike Marsoun <nulifesc@bigpond.com> wrote:

So many questions with this product. I know Dana is working on writing up a protocol for the use. I think the best thing that could be done, to answer all the questions is a video. The first part should be a non hyped history of the product, clarifying the past versions and discussing the current version. Almost like a documentary. Then showing how to use the new version. If someone can SEE a floor being done, with no pause in the recording, that would end all doubt. For now it is all hearsay and that depends heavily on the person. We all respect Fred and John tremendously and that is valuable testimony, but seeing is believing. I personally can't wait to try them out! 

Sent from my iPhone

On 16/08/2013, at 5:26 AM, "John Freitag" <jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com> wrote:

Our testing will be done both commercial and residential, seeing we have the service side of our business we have the opportunities to test in our training facility but to also test on our commercial maintenance properties and test when we are doing residential jobs. Our testing is not restricted to the our training facility.

 

 

John E Freitag

Director

The Stone & Tile School

Office 407-567-7652

Cell 407-615-0134

jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com

 

<image001.jpg>

 

www.thestoneandtileschool.com

 

 

From: Perfect Marble 2 [mailto:dayron.padilla13@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:20 PM
To: Stone and Tile PROS Technical Support
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Cheetah Pucks

 

Now that would be great.  To many times test are done but not true on the field test ie office building etc 

Sent by iPhone 

Dayron Padilla

Perfect Marble

 


On Aug 14, 2013, at 1:28 PM, "Hector Castillo" <hectorcastillo@comcast.net> wrote:

Hello Pro Partners

 

I think I John is too busy,  they should send out the puck  for the testing to any member for 1Day and let us send them the feed back?

 

Information would have to be in formation that all of us can see how the testing was done.

 

I think any new item needs to be field tested and proven by all of us that want to  test new items.

 

Hector Castillo

 

I would like feedback from any SCCpartners.

 

 

 

From: N-Motion Stone and Tile Care [mailto:klhudson@atlantastoneandtilecare.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 10:13 AM
To: Stone and Tile PROS Technical Support
Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Cheetah Pucks

 

Ken,

Thank you for sharing your experience! John, I understand that you have been extremely busy however, is their any updates on the Cheetah Pucks. Thanks.

Kevin Hudson

N- Motion Stone and Tile


Sent from my iPhone

 


On Aug 14, 2013, at 10:30 AM, propartner ken <propartner@marbleperfect.com> wrote:

Ken De Melis

I have to chime in on all the conversations about monkey pads and cheetah pucks

and all the MARKETING HYPE about this stuff. back in january or december i fianally

decided to try some of DANA,S monkey pads and cheetah pads/pucks on a project

i had coming up so i spent about 600 buck purchasing the full set of eight inch monkey

pads 200,400,800,1500,3000,8000,11000 and also the full set of 8 inch cheetah pads

they are more like an 8 inch puck to me.

the 200 grit monkey pad in a shower were a dismal disappointment they did not have any value in that experience so back

on the shelf in the trailer it went.

same shower 8 inch cheetah puck this did resurface the wall and i went thru the whole set to see the results and it was just ok.

but when i used a regular 200,400,800.1800 grit 8 inch turbo diamond pad from stone care central that cost me only 25 bucks each 
i got a faster result and a better looking finish on the same travertine shower

i have had some jobs where the monkey and or twister pads have been ok to use and got the desired results always a honed only or a high hone only finish they are in my opinion only good for that type of finish because they lack the CLARITY and REFLECTION that true professionals require of polish stone work.. why anyone thinks the cheetah pads a the second coming of easy better faster is certainly not what i experience in any of my testing results and i don't appreciate DANA coming on to HYPE product that is no better than what we have all used in the past. has anyone noticed the new pucks look more and more like resins mounted to a 3 m pad. i velcro 3 inch

diamonds to hogs hair pads all the time and it works great to ride over lippage too. why spend more money for a poorer quality outcome

since they are on generation 22 or 24 i must have generation 12 since i bought them 7 or 8 months ago. so DANA i challenge you to

replace these pads with your new stuff and i will honestly test them and report unbiased results back to the pros.

Ken De Melis

Marble Perfect

603-393-2776 NH, ME

 

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Mike Marsoun <nulifesc@bigpond.com> wrote:

 

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Tony Warney
Excel Stone and Tile Care



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Wilfredo DeJesus
561-350-3076
Elite Flooring Inc.
Website / www.eliteflooringandrefinishing.com