Mike,

I am familiar with the Tenax 5X and found it not to be nearly as effective as the 5X from the suppliers I sent yesterday.

There are a number of companies that have tried to duplicate the 5X polishing powders and they get close but for some reason cannot  duplicate exactly.  When I was in the franchise operation we tried to have it duplicated several time from chemists, to giving it to Universities to try and duplicate. They all got close but were never ever to duplicate. This is why I high recommend to all my students to use the 5X from the supplies listed  in my email yesterday. There are very few products I recommend as strongly as the 5X

I would recommend contacting StoneCare Central to see what the cost is to ship to you. Last year I had a student from Australia and he ordered his supplies from StoneCare central.

John E Freitag

President/Owner

The Stone & Tile School

407-567-7652

407-615-0314

jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com

www.thestoneandtileschool.com

Mike,

 

You just brought up an interesting comment. If you are using a TRUE 5X powder you would not need to grind up the nuggets. As you know I’m located in Florida and the heat and humidity is hot and moist.

One thing I can tell you if you are using an off brand 5X ( a wanta be 5X ) you will have problems with clumps and nuggets.  There are a lot of suppliers that try to copy the TRUE %X powders but they are missing some of the key ingredients. This is why you get the clumping and nuggets and my experience they do not work with like the TRUE 5X  powders.

To my knowledge there are 2 sources for in the US that imports the TRUE 5X polish.  StoneCare Central, M3 Technologies and Eastern Marble.  From my finding the other supplies are buying from sources that try to duplicate the 5X powder get close but never deliver the same product and will not deliver the results. They may be a few suppliers that buy from one of the above companies and private label.

 My recommendation is order the 5X powder from StoneCare central and comp-are to what you have been using.

We been doing restoration for over 25 years and find the 5X delivers the results.

 

 

 

John E Freitag

President/Owner

The Stone & Tile School

407-567-7652

407-615-0314

jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com

 

<image001.jpg>

www.thestoneandtileschool.com

 

 

 

From: list-manager@stoneandtilepros.simplelists.com [mailto:list-manager@stoneandtilepros.simplelists.com] On Behalf Of Mike Marsoun
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 4:56 PM
To: sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.simplelists.com
Subject: Re: countertops/vanities pricing

 

I agree. For me here in Australia cost is a big issue, everything is about 3x the price. I take all my 5x and run it thru a sifter then grind the nuggets in a coffee grinder and this helps and yes it helps to spike it with oxalic acid, but I never have had to buffer it. On the difficult stuff I'll just grind to a higher level and make it easier on the powder.  

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Jan 2015, at 1:28 am, "Bob Murrell" <bmurrell@m3techinc.com> wrote:

Hey guys, I just have to throw my two cents in here. There are lots of loose grain polishing media for marble and similar stone available in the world. Oxalic acid, aluminum oxide, tin oxide, cerium oxide, potassium oxalate, magnesium fluorosilicates, and the list goes on and on. The fact is that 5X powder is the most popular polishing media for calcareous based stones in the world. Why you ask? It is because it contains a special blend of some of the above mentioned raw materials. Basically, 5X bricks (in the solid form) are used at most every slab and tile marble production facility that I have seen.

All of this being said and as we all know by now, some stones react differently than others to specific polishing media and that is why there is no substitute for experience. It is good to have some of the other polishing media available (on the truck). For instance, can everyone immediately tell the difference between Botticino Fioritto and Botticino Classico? I know that after over 40 years in this business, I can’t always do that. Fioritto does not react well to acidic polishing media. Classico does fine. So restoration contractors should have some oxalic acid, aluminum oxide, tin oxide, and maybe a few specialty pre-blended powders on the truck to spike or reduce the acidic level of their 5X or to just substitute for some hard to polish materials. Adjustments on the fly are necessary many times. However, I would say that 90% of the time a premium 5X product (or 5X based product like polishing compound) will do the job quickly and cost effectively while producing superior results. The issue becomes the quality of the 5X. The best 5X is the Stonecare Pro which you all have very low cost access too. It is ball-milled and is very fine, not gritty and clumpy. 5X can be used with more water or less, just like any other polishing medium. More weight or less. More passes or fewer. It all depends on the stone.

So when I hear people say they have been using an inferior product for many years, I have to question why? More refined better quality abrasives normally cost a little more than inferior products but in this case, the Stonecare Pro 5X is one of the most cost effective polishing medias for marble available anywhere. Also any new polishing powders or compounds are really not new, you see. It is someone’s “special” blend of the already existing materials.

 

Bob Murrell

 

From: Mike Marsoun [mailto:nulifesc@bigpond.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 1:39 AM
To: sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.simplelists.com
Subject: RE: countertops/vanities pricing

 

Hi Stu,  just remembered this as I have to re order polishing powder. I get the Tenax 5x for $15 per kg.

Only MB I have seen here is MB11 for $68 per 180 grams. That’s crazy. I know MB 12 is a better product, but unless a TSP replaces several ounces of the 5x then it is a losing proposition. Shipping is crazy, so now I am remembering how I ended up here…stuck with the 5x and just making it work.

 

 

From: list-manager@stoneandtilepros.simplelists.com [mailto:list-manager@stoneandtilepros.simplelists.com] On Behalf Of stuart rosen
Sent: Tuesday, 9 December 2014 7:59 AM
To: sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.simplelists.com
Subject: Re: countertops/vanities pricing

 

Mike

Give me your address I will send some MB12 for you to try.

Goes well with a couple of pieces of dull stone and a cold Fosters Lager 

I think you will have some fun with it.

 

 

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Mike Marsoun <nulifesc@bigpond.com> wrote:

Thanks stu. I'll get some mb12. I find that a 400 Genisis gets everything usually and easier to transition to resins. The only reason I hone so high is because of the 5x being more difficult to pop a shine at 800. Hard to find good products here and super expensive. My go-to is the Tenax 5x because it is easily available and cheap. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 9 Dec 2014, at 2:14 am, stuart rosen <mail@stoneshine.com> wrote:

I hate to see anyone lower their pricing but if you get $1200 for a sixty sq ft kitchen you could lower your rate some.

Seems like you do a lot of steps-just curious why do you skip the 220 grit?

You could  use a faster process-start with a 220 genesis where there is etched or worn areas.

You could go right to 220 resin or in some cases 400 resin then go to 800 and polish with a dry polishing powder. Why waste all that time using 5x on a countertop if you don't have to. In most cases a product like MB12 will give you great results quickly. 

 

On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Mike Marsoun <nulifesc@bigpond.com> wrote:

What do you guys charge for countertops? I have been at $200m2 ($20sf) for a long time, seems to work but I have a large commercial job I am bidding and was wondering how low I could go.  Usually I go 400 genisis (electroplated) dry, then 120r, 400r, 800r 1800r, then5x. I will stop ar 800r sometimes but I rather do a quick pass with the diamonds than have to go hard with the powder.

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Regards,
Stu Rosen
201-446-1200

www.stoneshine.com

www.mbstonecare.com

www.mbstonepro.com

"EVERYTHING MATTERS"

 

 

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Regards,
Stu Rosen
201-446-1200

www.stoneshine.com

www.mbstonecare.com

www.mbstonepro.com

"EVERYTHING MATTERS"

 

 

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