Re: [sccpartners] Travertine Grind jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com 09 May 2009 21:13 EDT
Thanks Rod. Sounds like you've tried a few different options and have much experience. I'd like to stay away from buff poly if at all possible, if it requires that much more time and expense. (Plus I have already bid the job). My question at this point is ...will epoxy grout provide an acceptable look polished? Is traverfill any better? Jason Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: rod medel <rodsuperiorstone@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 17:43:37 To: Restoration and Maintenance<sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com> Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Travertine Grind Ok a few things. First you said you are grinding this floor so starting at 220 resin is not an option. You will need to start with a 50 or 100g de lippage tool on a weighted (200+lbs) floor machine.If you have some severe lips you may need to knock them down a bit with a cup wheel on your makita or create flashing slopes. Once you grind that travertine it will open up like swiss cheese. Now as for filling if you want your fills to polish as much as possible then using something like Buff poly is perfect....but if you have never filled 1000+ ft of travertine that has been ground you are in for a good time. Filling will be very tedious and time consuming (we have a few tricks feel free to email me) , you have to charge alot more for filling a floor with poly vs traverfill or ns grout/epoxy it just takes alot longer.You have to be sure to get the residue completely off of the surface otherwise it will dry very very hard and your 50 resins usually won't even take it off so you would then have to follow with something like a 100g vac brazed to remove the poly and at the same time take out the 50metal scratch patterns, but you also take the chance of opening up more holes which will require more filling..... There is no product than I know of that is easy to apply, has a long working time, that will cut of the residue with resins,and take a high polish like poly will.If there is something out there I would love to know, we have tried things like venitian plaster,ground up travertine dust with plaster or epoxy grout.Maurizo was an advocate for using latex based caulk which does not shink, dries very hard, is waterproof, and is shiny, I have tried a few times and we just can't seem to get it right or are not using the right caulk but I watched MB do it and it looked great.My point is there is no EASY way to grind and fill and take to polish and have fills that look as good as the stone you need to explain this to your customer and again if you fill with poly you need to charge accordingly. We have had to come in after some very very poor installations from so workers south of the border, being here in San Diego we see alot of these floors and in fact nicknamed on job the "great wall of china" so we alot of experience with GRINDING travertine and are always looking for helpful hints tricks or advice.Ok I am done rambling have a good weekend everyone. Rod Medel Superior Stone Restoration San Diego www.superiorstonerestoration.com --- On Sat, 5/9/09, jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com <jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com> wrote: From: jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com <jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com> Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Travertine Grind To: "Restoration and Maintenance" <sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com> Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 11:05 AM Hi John, Thanks for your comments. I do have some heavy lippage to remove on this floor. Even though the stone is softer, do you think I may be able to eliminate metal grinding and/or 50/100 resin? I am interested in a good filler. Could I get product info? Or debbie could you provide? Jason Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: "John Freitag" Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 13:06:19 -0400 To: Restoration and Maintenance<sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com> Subject: RE: [sccpartners] Travertine Grind Jason, I would never try to grind or hone over a ceramic tile, you are asking for problems. Try the following 1. Purchase some clear packing tape, tape over the inserts, over tape the insert, then go back with a single edge razor blade and cut off the tape even with the grout line, you should be able to hone over the ceramic tiles. The tape is so thin the diamond will glide over the tape. Seeing it a soft travertine I would suggest starting with a 220 grit and test a small area, if ir removes the damage continue , if it does not go to the 120 but in most cases you can remove a loot of damage with a 220 diamond, providing it’s a good 220 grit, meaning all 220 grit diamonds are not created equal. Note : if the damage is very light try a sample at a 400, I recommend always test a small area if your not sure of the damage in the stone. To do a test take little time but on 1200 plus sq.ft if you can eliminate 1 hone you have saved a lot of time. There are products out in the market call traver-fill specifically designed for filling travertine. I think StoneCare Central has one , if not I can put StoneCare Central in touch with the direct manufacturer. This a great product, very little shrinkage and once you know how to use it it’s great. It matches the quarry fills almost perfect. 2. Dry grinding marble, I have seem this done before, the problem you have is the dust, even with vac attached to your floor machines there is still dust that get on the customer furnishings, and you will have a n unhappy customer. For as much as diamonds I prefer the triple thick 3” diamonds from StoneCare Central I have used these diamond for over 8 maybe 10 years as my diamond of choice, I operated a restoration company that had sales over 1 million dollars per year and that ‘s the diamond I used. 3. Dry grinding to see the scratch patterns is nice, but I use a teach in The Stone and Tile School how to make sure you achieve a good even and complete grind or honing through a timing process that will guarantee a good hone and will assist you in bidding the time it will take to complete a project regardless of the size. 4. I concrete diamond for marble, there a lot of suppliers trying to design a diamond that will work on ALL materials, I still believe that you need to use the diamond that is designed for the stone you are working on. Marble, Granite, concrete. Some day maybe there will be one diamond for all but for now I’m not convinced of it. Don’t forget after you complete this job to sell the customer theproper care products for cleaning the floor and for the proper cleaning of any other stone or tile surface that maybe in the house CARE PRODUCTS MEAN EXTRA SALES AND PROFITS FOR YOU If I can be of any other assistance please advise, visit or school site at www.thestoneandtileschool.com John E. Freitag President/Director The Stone and Tile School Office 407-567-7652 Cell 407-615-0134 jfreitag@thestoneandtileschool.com www.thestoneandtileschool.com From: jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com [mailto:jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com] Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:17 PM To: Restoration and Maintenance Subject: [sccpartners] Travertine Grind Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: jason francis Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 08:25:59 -0700 (PDT) To: <jfrancis@protocolfloorcare.com> Subject: Travertine Grind Since we are talking about travertine I thought I would get some feedback on my next big project. I am grinding 1250 sq. ft of soft honed travertine and bringing it to a high polish. The homeowner decided to put ceramic tile inserts throughout the floor, of all things to put. 1. Has anyone ground ceramic inserts? My assumption is that if it is through body, than it will be fine. My plan is to try an area and see how it works first. Hopefully it is thick enough tile. Man it would be a lot more work if I have to blend around these inserts with metals then duct tape them off. 2. Do ya'll have a preferred fill? I am planning on using epoxy grout. Is there anything wrong with Laticrete from Home Cheapo? Obviously I want the fill the take a high polish. 3. This question is strange. I have a full set of diamonds I use for concrete called T Bone(Dry). Manufacturer sells them as also for marble and travertine used dry. They say its new technology. Has anyone ever worked resins dry on marble? I am almost afraid to try. I would assume there is no harm in just using them wet. At the same time it would be nice to see the scratch pattern as you work. Thanks in advance for your thoughts, Jason Protocol Powered by http://DiscussThis.com Visit list archives, subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription preferences Start a new conversation (thread) Powered by http://DiscussThis.com Visit list archives, subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription preferences Start a new conversation (thread) Powered by http://DiscussThis.com Visit list archives, subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription preferences Start a new conversation (thread) -- Powered by http://DiscussThis.com Visit list archives, subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription preferences: http://www.discussthis.com/members/sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com Start a new conversation (thread): sccpartners@stoneandtilepros.com